In this episode, Ryan Goulart welcomes executive coach, leadership expert, and Think2Perform Vice President Elena Beckius to explore one of the most crucial aspects of effective communication: giving and receiving feedback. With honesty, clarity, and compassion, Elena shares tools and experiences that illuminate how feedback when done well can create stronger relationships, unlock performance, and shape thriving organizational cultures.
Elena discusses how self-awareness, emotional intelligence, and intentional delivery all play critical roles in making communication land the way we intend it. Drawing from leadership models like Radical Candor and Think2Perform’s Everyday Leadership framework, this conversation is a practical guide to navigating the uncomfortable moments and reframing them into opportunities for growth and connection.
Self-Awareness as the Foundation
Elena begins by emphasizing the role of self-awareness in communication. She shares how understanding one’s own nonverbal cues, mindset, and delivery style significantly impacts how messages are received. Effective communication, she notes, starts long before words are spoken it’s shaped by how present, grounded, and emotionally intelligent a leader is.
Radical Candor: Care Personally, Challenge Directly
A pivotal concept in Elena’s communication toolkit is Kim Scott’s Radical Candor. She explains how balancing personal care with direct challenge can improve not just message clarity but relationship quality. When feedback falls flat, it’s often because either the caring or the candor is missing. Elena shares how embracing discomfort and reframing feedback as a gift helped her lead more effectively and courageously.
Listening to Understand, Not to Respond
Elena reminds us that communication is a two-way street. She emphasizes the importance of listening, truly listening to understand others’ perspectives, especially in moments of tension or disagreement. She shares a powerful mantra: “We’re on the same team,” encouraging leaders to stay collaborative, even in conflict.
Feedback as a Two-Way Exchange
Too often, feedback is viewed as a one-directional process from leader to employee. Elena challenges that norm, advocating for a culture where feedback is solicited, shared, and welcomed at all levels. She asserts that some of the most dynamic, innovative workplaces are those where employees are encouraged to speak up and leaders are open to being coached in return.
Matching Feedback with the Right Coaching Style
Using Think2Perform’s Everyday Leadership framework, Elena explains how leaders can adapt their coaching style to match the individual’s skill and willingness. Whether someone needs step-by-step instruction or simply validation and alignment, tailoring your message to the individual increases the likelihood that feedback will result in meaningful development.
Why Medium Matters: Face-to-Face Wins
When delivering challenging feedback, Elena strongly advocates for face-to-face communication whether in person or over video. With so much of communication being nonverbal, text or email often strips away nuance, making messages seem colder or more severe than intended. A direct conversation better conveys care and empathy, ensuring the message lands with the spirit in which it was meant.
Communicating in Your Own Voice
In a world where AI is increasingly used to generate messages, Elena cautions leaders to ensure their communication reflects their own voice and values. Authenticity and context are key tools like AI can assist, but they cannot replace the trust, emotional nuance, and relational history that leaders bring into each conversation.
Transcript
Ryan Goulart (00:01.109)
Alright, thank you. Elena welcome back to Making the Ideal Real.
Elena Beckius (00:10.456)
Thanks, Ryan, I’m happy to be here.
Ryan Goulart (00:12.459)
I’m excited to have you here too. So one of the things that we’ve been talking about this month is communication and not just any communication. We’re talking about effective communication. And, you know, when it comes to that, there’s so many facets of that topic that we can go. But, one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about is one facet, which is about giving and receiving feedback.
Elena Beckius (00:20.174)
Great.
Elena Beckius (00:25.656)
Love it.
Ryan Goulart (00:40.887)
because it is a big part of the umbrella conversation of effective communication. And it’s also something that everyone deals with every day. to kind of start this thing off, I wanted to ask you, when it comes to giving and receiving feedback, what does that look like when it goes well? And what happens in your experience when it doesn’t go well? We’ll start there.
Elena Beckius (01:05.77)
Yeah, when it doesn’t go well, mean, man, communication, just like any other skill in leadership is certainly a skill that that you can get better at over time and you should get better at over time. It’s it’s a worthy use of time and energy because it is fully involved in every ass in every avenue of business. Right. But so certainly in my professional career, I’ve had plenty of times where
communication and specifically feedback hasn’t gone well. And there’s a couple of scenarios that come to mind. Number one,
You know it hasn’t gone well when you walk away and you just have this like sneaking suspicion that they were not getting what you were saying, right? They weren’t picking up what you were putting down. And you walk away and you just know that you could have been clearer, you could have been more precise, right? And it feels a little bit like wasted time.
Ryan Goulart (01:58.51)
Mm-hmm.
Elena Beckius (02:11.438)
Other scenarios where it hasn’t gone well, it’s like where you walk away from a scenario either where you are giving somebody feedback or they have given you feedback and you just didn’t really see eye to eye and you just are wondering, man, where do I stand with this person? Right? Like that didn’t feel good. So those are scenarios that come to mind when feedback isn’t done well. And then also when you walk away,
from the conversation and you think, didn’t want to come on as strong as I came on, you know, and you walk away kind of feeling like I may have hurt their feelings, or I wish I could go back and say it a little differently, or I’ve been thinking about this for a while, so I was able just to give the feedback point blank, but.
they haven’t really been on this thought journey with me and I just maybe rained on their parade, right? And so you walk away with regrets, just feeling like, that didn’t go as well as I thought it could, or that I thought it would rather.
Ryan Goulart (03:20.643)
Yeah. And it’s such a, I think this particular topic, effective communication is just such a, it’s something that we do every day and we’re not always effective at it. We’re not always the most intentional about it. And so I think some of the things that you’re sharing here are those moments of regret, like, man, I definitely came on too strong. Or those moments where it’s like, that didn’t go well as well as I’d hoped it to.
Elena Beckius (03:30.903)
Yeah.
Ryan Goulart (03:51.116)
when you talk out of the side of your mouth. So, but one of the things that.
Elena Beckius (03:54.838)
Yes, that’s right.
Ryan Goulart (04:00.143)
You know, I find fascinating about this particular topic is just and how you’ve positioned things before is just that, you know, there are certain tactical things that you’ve done or you’ve learned that you’ve been able to teach others on how to get better at this because it is such a big piece of leadership and, you know, truthfully, big part of just being human, of being able to relate to others. So when it comes to effective communication, whether it be giving and receiving feedback or, you
Elena Beckius (04:13.122)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Goulart (04:30.157)
just even starting up a conversation with someone that you’ve never talked to, what are some kind of like Elena insights that you have that you might be able to share with our audience?
Elena Beckius (04:42.518)
Yeah, and knowing that we were talking about this, I kind of of course thought about it in advance, but one of the things that I think about now, and I maybe wouldn’t have said this five years ago or 10 years ago, but certainly working with NTHING to perform, this comes…
right front and center is that self-awareness really matters when it comes to communication. So we often think we’re communicating something a certain way and it doesn’t land right how we wanted it to just like we were talking about before and
The way that we can get better is to make better decisions when it comes to our communication and to manage our own selves better, which allows us to be able to influence other people more effectively. But as we know, and as we talk about at Think to Perform a lot, the leadership logic chain in order to get better at influencing people, whether that’s in communication or other ways, is simply to be more self-aware. know, being self-aware that 80 to 90 % of community
is nonverbal. So if we really want to have positive communication with somebody, we really need to be aware of our face and our body and body language and posture and how we are smiling or not smiling.
making sure that the words that come out of our mouth actually match our feeling and our intention of making somebody else feel a certain way. So that’s the first thing that comes to mind actually as and I and as I was preparing for this I was like I need to talk about this probably more in with clients and in the leadership workshops that we do because there is a direct connection between communication effectiveness and self-awareness.
Elena Beckius (06:38.384)
So that’s kind of foundational what comes to mind.
Ryan Goulart (06:43.351)
Yeah, you know, it’s, what, as you were sharing that what triggered in my mind was, a recent conversation that I actually had with my daughter, Reese. And it’s like the parallels between, for this conversation are just so apparent to me in parenting and that when I come on too strong, whether it’s too playful or more likely than not, I don’t like what I see.
Elena Beckius (07:10.03)
Yeah. Well, you have a topper.
Ryan Goulart (07:13.583)
I don’t meet, yeah, exactly, she’s four years old, she’s definitely pushing the boundaries on things. And I realized last night that I was like, I was able to get her back to bed when I had a more relaxed voice. It was a lot easier for me to kind of convince her that.
Elena Beckius (07:32.12)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Goulart (07:37.891)
You know, it might be a good time to go to bed when it’s almost nine o’clock, Reese, even though we put you to bed an hour ago. And it was a lot easier than like my M.O. on those things is just to come in too hot. And then it’s all of sudden it’s like I’ve wasted enough. Yeah, exactly. Get in there. But yeah, so like it’s just the present of mind that and this.
Elena Beckius (07:54.38)
Yeah, get to bed now. Yeah.
Elena Beckius (08:00.278)
Absolutely.
Ryan Goulart (08:05.635)
This is also too, cause I find myself in similar situations where it’s like, want my communication to land perfectly. I want it to, I want it to just like, I want people to know what I, what I’m thinking, how I’m thinking it, how I’m feeling about it. And I do all those things. And then like, it’s like, how do I, like, I want my, my message to land the way I envisioned it. And sometimes it doesn’t happen. So like, how, how have you experienced?
Elena Beckius (08:13.013)
Mm-hmm.
Elena Beckius (08:32.152)
Right.
Ryan Goulart (08:35.587)
those two parallels, mean, meet people where they’re at, don’t come in too hot. And then also too, just the, like, how do you bridge the gap when your intention doesn’t land the way you think it is or how it will? And how do you recover? Because I think, you know, effective communication is all about balance, right? I mean, it’s just like, this isn’t gonna, this isn’t gonna go well.
Elena Beckius (08:53.142)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Goulart (09:04.781)
most of the time or not all of the time. And how do you manage that?
Elena Beckius (09:08.012)
Right, right.
It makes me think of a book that I’ve talked to you about. It was a book that I read at the end of 2023, but it’s called Radical Candor. And the author’s name is Kim, and she says in the book that communication is not measured at the speaker’s mouth. Effective communication is measured at the listener’s ear.
Ryan Goulart (09:33.423)
Hmm.
Elena Beckius (09:38.954)
And so, you know, as I even think about that, in respect to what you said, of course, we want to do our part in effectively communicating, but it really doesn’t matter how well we think we did. It’s really measured at the listener’s ear. So the first step is to check in, you know, and reiterate.
or check in with them about what they heard, you know, and check in, engage the communication. But I want to take a step back and actually talk about radical candor for a second, because I think radical candor, it’s one of the biggest leadership lessons that I’ve learned in the past couple of years. Just giving me a tool to be able to visualize what good communication looks like. And in the book, she talks about
Ryan Goulart (10:09.017)
Mm-hmm.
Elena Beckius (10:36.464)
about radical candor as a tool to help you do the very best communicating in your professional career and a tool to help you build great relationships. in the gist of the book is that you can think about radical candor as the intersection of caring personally and challenging directly.
And so she talks about how caring personally, when you walk away from a conversation and you feel like somebody is upset, or you feel like they might be emotional as a response to the conversation, that might be a cue that you need to ramp up the care personally side of your communication. Or if you walk away from a conversation, somebody’s like, and you’re thinking, man, I just don’t think.
they’re picking up what I’m putting down. They’re not getting the message. That’s actually a cue then to you to ramp up your challenge directly. You need to be more direct in your communication. For me, Ryan, where I have found myself fall into bad habits of communication or even giving feedback, it’s not that I’m not high enough on the care personally scale.
it’s usually that I’m not as direct as I need to be. And part of that has to do with being self-aware that I’m prioritizing my own comfort over the person’s development on the other side. If I care too much about my discomfort in the conversation, like this is going to be hard conversation, I don’t really want to have it, I’d rather…
just stay comfortable and not challenge the status quo. That’s when I can get myself into trouble and where I walk away from those conversations feeling like, man, I just, didn’t get the point across. And that person walked away and doesn’t have what they need to be able to develop or to be able to do their best work. I’m holding back to make myself more comfortable. That’s the self-awareness piece.
Ryan Goulart (12:51.663)
Yeah. Yeah. What, what made you, what was that like turning point for you as you kind of learned this model, had the self-awareness and then started to apply it? What was the turning point for you to put into action?
Elena Beckius (13:06.796)
Well, the turning point for me actually came before I read the book. It was when I would leave, especially one-on-one conversations with members on my team, and I would think I needed to be more clear about that, you know, and I knew it. And because that just happened regularly enough that I knew it was a problem.
I had to reframe that conversation. instead of thinking, man, I gotta go have this tough conversation, let this person know that they are not delivering results to the extent that they should have been by now, or I need to have a career conversation, or I need to have a performance conversation, I would…
worry about the difficulty, right? The relationship capital that could be at risk.
I had to reframe that for myself. And I don’t actually remember what the turning point was, but I remember thinking, if I really care about these people and if I really care about their careers and that they get the most out of their careers and they advance to the extent that they can given their unique gifts and abilities and interests and certainly skills.
I can’t hold back from giving them feedback and direction that they need. So I would reframe it for myself and I would tell them verbally, Ryan, I care so much about you that I never wanna hold back in conversation. So if there’s something that I really need you to know, I’m gonna share that with you. And this is one of those times. I want you to know that I’ve been noticing something that I think is holding you back. And then I would jump into whatever.
Elena Beckius (15:00.084)
the conversation was. They probably didn’t even notice a difference, but for me it gave me the courage as a leader to give them the feedback that they needed, even though it was uncomfortable for me. That was my job.
Ryan Goulart (15:14.919)
That’s awesome. Yeah, and it’s… I love the reframe too of how you took something that is discomfort, is uncomfortable, and made it a positive. And I’m sure it’s too, it’s like most things, like we all… I’m not gonna we, I’ll say it, I. I want to be masterful on my first go.
man, it would be so nice to just have that immediacy and instant gratification that it was like, yeah, that’s not the reality. so how does, I mean, when it comes to communication too, like self-awareness, big, big piece, radical candor, positioning it in a way that can help make the message.
Elena Beckius (15:43.04)
Right. Don’t we all?
It would be nice.
Ryan Goulart (16:11.791)
tailor the message for how you need it to. What are some other tools that you’ve leveraged for effective communication, personally, professionally, what have you?
Elena Beckius (16:22.988)
Yeah, you know, I think one of the things that there’s a couple of kind of tips that come to mind. One is related to communication. You know, we think about it so much as what we say, right? But really good communication really involves active listening as well.
and listening not to respond, but listening to understand. And I think that’s probably a lesson that I learned in my pre-marriage counseling that I bring with me to every professional setting as well. It’s that communication involves listening. And if we can hold back the tendency just to respond, especially in tense situations,
If we can listen to understand versus listen to respond it it allows for just truly that understanding that person’s point of view and Even if you don’t agree with it That’s okay That’s okay. Like I think about something my husband says all the time when we disagree about something He’ll say but just remember we’re on the same team
And that’s a great phrase to say in business too, because it’s like we come across times where we’re not going to agree on everything, but let’s just remember we’re on the same team. And sometimes that just means like walking away and coming back after you’ve thought about it a little bit.
Ryan Goulart (17:51.62)
Yeah.
Ryan Goulart (18:06.637)
Yeah, I like that too, because so often it’s you versus them or me versus them. And it’s just this, when there’s conflict, like how does one navigate that? Cause it doesn’t, it does happen, especially in the workplace. And it feels.
And like the spectrum of emotion in those situations can be so wide. Those that have experience with it, those that don’t, those that feel like they’re getting attacked, then the person’s defensive. Then there’s the passive aggressiveness about it because the person’s uncomfortable that they say something. I’m going through like six different versions of what conflict can look like. And there are so many different ways to respond to it. So, you when it comes to the workplace,
Elena Beckius (18:48.61)
Yeah.
Ryan Goulart (18:55.309)
with that because I think, you know, they’re giving and receiving feedback can be viewed inherently as conflict. You’ve taken the step of having the self-awareness to research the idea to come up to find a model that worked for you. And then you had the wherewithal to reframe the situation, but inherently it can feel uncomfortable and therefore feel conflictive.
as part of a conversation? What are some ways in which you, in your coaching, your leadership training that you help people kind of navigate that divide between feedback as a gift versus something that feels conflictive?
Elena Beckius (19:40.384)
Yeah, well, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is that there are so many benefits of a culture of feedback, right? And everybody knows it. It’s continuous improvement and it builds trust and people that give and get feedback on a regular basis tend to be more engaged.
and people that are more engaged tend to produce better results and deliver better results and it empowers development and all these different great reasons, right, why you would want to have a culture of development or a culture of feedback rather. Here’s the thing that sometimes we forget about is that we often think that feedback just comes from the leader to the follower.
Whether you did something good, the leader recognizes and provides feedback. If you have an area that you need to improve in, then the feedback comes from the leader to the follower. But actually, that one-sided feedback…
doesn’t really create a culture of feedback. So leaders who are comfortable getting a lot of feedback need to lean into the other side, which is asking for feedback and receiving feedback and creating an environment where it is psychologically safe for somebody on your team to give you an idea or to give you feedback as a leader or to say, hey, I think there’s a better way for us to do this. When we have a culture of
which is truly at every level of the organization, now we’re actually cooking with gas, right? Because we actually now are getting stuff done. We’re identifying problems. I’m thinking about the five levels of leadership that our colleague Ray Kelly talks about a lot.
Elena Beckius (21:34.668)
When you provide feedback, you’re actually bringing a problem to somebody or you’re bringing an idea to somebody. And often you’re coming up with some solutions to do it better. That allows people to start problem solving for the organization and perhaps then they can get others on board and get others behind them, right? So feedback can be a great tool for leaders to use to develop their people. But…
I would be willing to bet, and I don’t have anything to justify this, but I would be willing to bet that some of the most successful cultures are heavier on feedback from the other direction than just from the leader. Because that’s where really creativity and ideas…
are coming from is within the organization. Every good idea can’t come from the leader. And so that’s what first comes to mind is creating a culture of feedback by giving feedback and getting feedback. And if you’re not getting feedback first, you’re not creating really a culture where feedback is going to thrive.
Ryan Goulart (22:40.589)
Yeah, it’s such a, I find this topic fascinating because it is such a, a fascinating world where you hear stories about like Reed Hastings at Netflix where they don’t have any rules and they know rule rules is a book that he wrote and how they have a culture of feedback where
everything, even his work is critiqued and measured and all of those things. And to get there, it sounds awesome. mean, it does. It sounds awesome to have that type of value at work. then also, it takes self-awareness. It really does, be able to entrust to
to establish a culture like that, to make it worth the while for someone to take the risk to say something to the leader. There’s a variety of cultures that have that. There’s some cultures that are on the complete opposite side where feedback is buried. It’s not even a topic. Why would you ever do that? You’d lose your job.
Elena Beckius (23:42.572)
Mm-hmm.
Elena Beckius (23:58.198)
Right. Right.
Ryan Goulart (24:01.047)
I think it’s just such a weird human behavior that I think, which is why communication is so important of voicing that. when it comes to just, I mean, we’ve talked a lot about what it looks like when it goes poorly. What does it look like when it goes well? What’s been your experience when you’ve coached someone or you’ve had experience where you did something that it’s like, this went so great.
Way to go, Elena.
Elena Beckius (24:28.814)
Yeah, you know, I think it’s
When you’re giving feedback within the broader spectrum of communication, I think about two things. Number one, it’s the radical candor, care personally and challenge directly. So be as direct as possible with the feedback. But I also think about it in respect to everyday leadership, which is a coaching guideline and tool that we use a lot at Think to Perform.
and it’s really assessing the individual’s skill in whatever you’re giving them feedback on. So if somebody is very low skill,
and low willingness to do something, when I’m going to give them feedback and I’m going to give them coaching, you know, so here’s the feedback, this is what I’m noticing, are you open to some suggestions and I go to give them coaching them, I’m going to be as direct as possible. I’m going to actually break down the thing that I am trying to, the skill that I’m trying to coach them on, right? So I think about the combination of feedback with everyday leadership as a really powerful tool
for leaders because actually when things go really well it’s usually because you’ve given clear feedback with the right coaching model or the right coaching style for the person that you’re coaching.
Elena Beckius (26:04.874)
when it hasn’t gone well or or maybe if you just walk away and you’re like that took longer than i thought a lot of times i’m giving feedback and then partnering it with the wrong leadership style thinking about times where i’ve over described something or i’ve broken it up into
too much detail and people are like, nope, I get it. Nope, I get it. Like, you can stop now, right? There’s cues like that that you pick up from people where it’s where you’re providing feedback, but matching it with the wrong leadership style.
Ryan Goulart (26:38.351)
Yeah. And it’s, um, where do you see it in particularly like, you know, in a one-on-one situation where, mean, we, definitely talk about giving and receiving feedback in a, this type of format, whether it’s virtual or in person, how does it work in other formats? Email, text message, you know, voice memo, how
Elena Beckius (27:03.476)
I’m off.
Ryan Goulart (27:04.163)
How have you seen communication work in that? Using different mediums? Because people receive stuff in so many different ways nowadays.
Elena Beckius (27:14.659)
Yeah.
I think this is an Elena opinion and I don’t have data to support this either, but I think anytime you are giving someone challenging feedback, if you can give them that feedback in person or even virtually like we’re doing right now where somebody can see your face and they can hear your tone and they can get a sense of your care personally side of the equation, if you match that with the challenge directly
side of the equation, you’re much more likely to have an effective feedback conversation. Just like any other communication, so much is lost in text, in Teams messaging, in chat, in email.
And I, know, frankly, am somebody that when I’m writing an email to somebody, it can be really easy for me just to jump right into the content and not even apply a greeting. Like I’m just jumping right in there. And that’s such a crappy message to receive. You just never know what somebody on the other side of the computer is going through. They may have had a bad day and now they get this email from Elena and it’s like,
Ryan Goulart (28:24.738)
You
Elena Beckius (28:31.604)
good morning, how about, right? Like we’ve all been there and we’ve probably all done it, but I think when you’re having feedback conversations where you want to be specific and you want to be clear about how much you care about somebody, do it face to face.
Ryan Goulart (28:32.591)
Hahahaha
Ryan Goulart (28:50.457)
That’s good. That’s good feedback.
Elena Beckius (28:52.942)
Thank you.
Ryan Goulart (28:58.703)
One other thing too, as we kind of wrap up here, and this is just something that I’ve been kind of noticing in how communication is happening. it’s just, so this is going to be another Elena opinion as we kind of think about kind of putting a bow on this. When it comes to the role of technology, so we have, there’s so many different versions of.
how one can communicate. There’s also, and this is something that I’ve just noticed just in social media and elsewhere, is that because of AI, people’s written communication isn’t always their own. And so like you might have a message that looks one way and reads clearly in all those things that we know to be true about effective communication. But then the delivery over here,
Elena Beckius (29:40.129)
Mmm!
Ryan Goulart (29:55.437)
doesn’t match what the message was. How do you, mean, and so that’s a weird behavior setting where, or scenario where you have someone demonstrating the skill, but then not being able to deliver. What are your thoughts there?
Elena Beckius (30:14.604)
Yeah, that is interesting and I have experienced that personally. And I think one of the things that AI probably will get better at over time but is not perfect is…
is communicating in your voice, you know? And what might be like a very clear communication that AI distributes for you or that, you you put a prompt in and you get three paragraphs back and you send it off to this person. The formality of the tone and even certain words that you may be…
didn’t notice when you were reviewing the AI paragraph, right? Feels actually really formal to somebody on the other side of the computer. And they start.
asking questions like, she seems really formal about this. Is this, you know, like one one thing that comes to my mind is was this like written by HR or what is what is this all about? All of a sudden she’s being like so formal and people notice that, you know, so I think it just goes to it goes back to
Ryan Goulart (31:21.943)
Mm-hmm.
Elena Beckius (31:35.03)
your self-awareness of how do you normally communicate and what feels like is your voice and your tone and does it really capture how much you care and does it really capture conversations that you’ve had in the past and just the little nuances where when you write it
you communicate certain things. Like, I know we talked about this a little bit a month ago. Well, AI doesn’t know that we talked about this a month ago, you know, so you’re starting to connect the dots on the journey you’ve been with this person. And so I think it just goes back to, well, AI can be a great tool to start the communication.
don’t let it be your communication because AI doesn’t have your relationships and AI doesn’t have your experiences and they certainly don’t have the experiences of the person on the other side of the computer.
Ryan Goulart (32:28.067)
Yeah. And it’s, it’s a really good, good advice too. I mean, the fact that even the formality of like, HR write this? Like that’s automatically putting the person on the defensive or feeling like, Whoa, like, I about to lose my job? Like what, what’s happening here? Which is, you know, I mean, again, to your earlier point that the intent.
Elena Beckius (32:40.02)
I’m…
Elena Beckius (32:44.023)
Great.
Ryan Goulart (32:50.989)
doesn’t match the behavior and the awareness that one needs to have to be able to kind of line that up to the best they can. Yeah, very good. Well, thank you for coming on to making the idea real. Always great to have you.
Elena Beckius (32:59.288)
Mm-hmm.
Elena Beckius (33:04.992)
Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, no, it’s fun to chat about this. It’s an area that we can all get better all the time, you know, there’s, there’s truly no end to better when it comes to communication. All right, thanks.
Ryan Goulart (33:19.349)
Awesome.
