In this episode, Ryan Goulart welcomes H. Adam Holt and Derek Notman alongside Doug Lennick to explore the intersection of entrepreneurship, fatherhood, leadership, and intentional living. Together, they unpack the challenges modern dads face balancing ambition, family, and personal growth while building businesses, careers, and meaningful relationships.
From loneliness and burnout to building intentional family experiences, Adam and Derek share the story behind REBL Dads and the lessons they’ve learned from interviewing and connecting with high-performing fathers around the world. Through candid conversation and practical wisdom, the group explores how dads can pursue success without sacrificing the relationships that matter most.
The Birth of REBL Dads: From Isolation to Community
Derek shares the deeply personal story behind the creation of REBL Dads. Navigating entrepreneurship, fatherhood, and the loss of his relationship with his own father left him feeling isolated and overwhelmed. Searching for a community that blended fatherhood with entrepreneurial ambition, Derek realized it didn’t exist so he decided to build it himself.
What began as a bold vision to gather entrepreneurial dads on Richard Branson’s Necker Island quickly evolved into a global community focused on vulnerability, growth, and accountability. Adam reflects on how the experience revealed a larger need among men for meaningful connection, mentorship, and support.
Responsible Entrepreneurship and the “And” Mindset
Doug emphasizes one of the episode’s central ideas: success in business and success at home are not mutually exclusive. Rather than an “or” mindset where achievement requires sacrifice in family life, the group explores the importance of embracing an “and” mentality becoming both a successful entrepreneur and an engaged father.
Adam and Derek explain the meaning behind the REBL acronym:
- Responsible — Own your choices and commitments.
- Entrepreneurial — Build proactively rather than waiting for permission.
- Balanced — Protect what matters most and recognize when life is out of alignment.
- Leader — Model the behavior you want others to follow.
Together, they discuss how intentional leadership at work must also extend into the home.
Balance vs. Harmony
One of the biggest insights from REBL Dads conversations is that perfect balance doesn’t exist. Instead, many fathers strive for “harmony” creating intentional rhythms between work, family, health, and personal growth.
Adam uses a financial planning analogy to explain this idea, comparing life balance to asset allocation: just as portfolios drift out of alignment over time, so do our priorities. The key is regularly reassessing and intentionally rebalancing time, energy, and focus.
Derek adds that communication and transparency with family especially children helps create understanding around the inevitable tensions between work and home life.
Intentional Presence and Shared Experiences
The conversation highlights the importance of intentional presence rather than simply physical presence. Adam reflects on realizing that being available wasn’t always the same as being emotionally engaged.
One recurring theme from their interviews with high-performing dads was the power of shared experiences:
- Creating one-on-one memories with each child.
- Prioritizing experiences over routines.
- Traveling or doing challenging activities together to foster growth and connection.
- Building inside jokes, traditions, and meaningful moments that last a lifetime.
Doug reinforces the importance of relating to each child individually rather than only as a group, creating unique relationships and experiences with each family member.
Leadership, Vulnerability, and Continuous Growth
Throughout the episode, the group returns to the idea that fatherhood and leadership are lifelong growth journeys. Derek reflects on the danger of comparing yourself to others whether in business, parenting, or personal success and instead encourages focusing on becoming slightly better each day.
Adam and Derek also emphasize that REBL Dads is not about perfection or rigid rules. It’s about humility, vulnerability, accountability, and taking small intentional steps toward becoming a better father, partner, and leader.
Doug closes by reinforcing a central theme of the conversation: legacy is less about what people say after you’re gone and more about how you choose to live today.
Check out the REBL Book
If you are interested in learning more about the fatherhood lessons Adam and Derek shared, check out their book: REBL Dad: What 100+ Fathers Reveal About Successful Leadership at Home and Work
Transcript
Ryan Goulart (00:02.54)
Welcome to making the ideal real. We have an awesome show for us today. We have Adam Holt, the CEO of AssetMap. We have Derek Notman, another FinTech executive and a founder of one of our topics today, which is the REBL Dads community. And then of course we have our CEO, Doug Lenick of Think2Perform. Welcome guys.
Derek Notman (00:14.851)
Hmm.
Doug (00:28.14)
Thank you. It’s good to be here on your show, of course.
H. Adam Holt (00:28.389)
Good to see you.
Derek Notman (00:29.891)
Thank you very much.
Ryan Goulart (00:31.982)
We have so what we’re to talk about today directly connects to what we explore often here on making the ideal real where we talk about values and goals and decision making really about behavior and how all three converge into how we behave and how we are every day and one of the things that really is exciting to talk with Adam and Derek and then of course Doug about today is just when it comes to success
and success on paper. There’s always this illusion that’s there of like, wow, that person did this, or wow, he did that, or wow, she did this. But what’s not talked about often is just what’s underneath and what are the decisions that individual makes, trade-offs they make on how to be successful. And so one of the things that’s really exciting to talk with Adam and Derek about today is the decisions that dads make.
and dads do. So Adam, I’m going to start with you and just kind of lean into that curiosity about how did this community of dads really start to gather and to explore this concept of entrepreneurial dads living a balanced life.
H. Adam Holt (01:52.645)
Well, can’t take thanks for having us. First of all, it’s good to see you guys both. respect you both and appreciate your audience’s time and attention. Derek and I have been, I we’ve been really close buddies, best friends for the past bunch of years based on our podcasting. We spent a lot of time together. And I really want him to tell the story because REBL Dads is really kind of born out of his crazy mind. But I want to share that, can say that about you, right? Because we’re so close. We’ll attempt to be honest in this program.
Ryan Goulart (01:55.544)
course.
Derek Notman (02:18.85)
Yeah.
Doug (02:19.872)
Hahaha.
H. Adam Holt (02:22.588)
I think one of the big, big challenges for so many of us entrepreneurs, again, also I’m a recovering advisor just like Derek, trying to build a practice, working for yourself, not having the accountability of a senior except clients, right, that predicts whether you’re gonna be successful or not in our fun business of advice.
and kind of growing up with that, not having that accountability structure and realizing how similar that is to starting a family and raising a child and not having the knowledge and experience and maybe even mentorship to pull that off. It’s very similar. So I think that the real kind of juxtaposition between running a venture and running the adventure of a parenting is very similar and nerve-racking. And so I was always kind of curious about this and very much treated my business as like a kid.
But Derek really will share the origin story of our journey in fatherhood discussions.
Ryan Goulart (03:19.094)
Awesome, Derek, love to hear it.
Derek Notman (03:20.483)
Well, Adam’s been there from like day 1.25. He’s been there from very early on. But I can give you some more context for sure.
Ryan Goulart (03:26.101)
Ha
H. Adam Holt (03:26.572)
I was late.
Doug (03:26.754)
Hahaha
Doug (03:30.622)
I love how you guys talk, you guys talk in decimal points and version, you know.
Derek Notman (03:34.691)
Hahaha
H. Adam Holt (03:35.152)
That’s right.
Doug (03:37.532)
Yeah
Derek Notman (03:38.059)
Yeah, right, right. Well, as we were talking before we kicked off the show, I grew up in the Minneapolis area and did not grow up in a great family situation. And eventually went off to college and found myself in a situation where eventually I was, you know, I’m pursuing this path of entrepreneurship and
Ryan Goulart (03:38.543)
Ha ha.
Derek Notman (04:07.139)
I’m newly married and then a couple years goes by and then I find myself with our first kid, well our only kid. being an entrepreneur is really, really hard or even being what you could call an intrapreneur, you’re pursuing a certain career path, that has its own set of challenges. So whatever you’re pouring your heart and your brain to, it’s really challenging. And so I found myself in that position.
And I decided to have a kid too. And that’s equally as challenging. And as all of this is converging, my father decided to not be a part of my life anymore. So I find myself in this position where I don’t know what I’m doing as a father or as an entrepreneur. I’m hacking through it. I’m making a lot of mistakes. And I went down that path for a while and got physically unhealthy, was stressed out, all of these things.
And eventually I was like, I’ve had enough. Like there’s got to be a better way. I’m tired of feeling lonely. Like I’m on an island and I just can’t do this by myself anymore. And so started looking for communities that really blended what it meant to be a father, that role of fatherhood, a dad, but also one.
Ryan Goulart (05:06.03)
Hehehehehe
Doug (05:09.58)
You
Derek Notman (05:32.483)
where there was an understanding of the entrepreneurial mind, whether you’re a true founder or trying to climb a corporate ladder. Couldn’t find that community, so I’m like, all right, I think I want to start this thing. And initially, it was going to be just a bucket list experience, get a group of cool guys together, let’s go talk about some stuff on how to be better dads and better leaders at work. But I’m like, all right, well, no one knows who Derek is.
How am gonna get these people together? How am gonna people to give up their time? We’re busy. And I’m like, wouldn’t it be cool if we had an event on Necker Island, which is Sir Richard Branson’s island. And wouldn’t it be cool if Richard was part of this group, this event? Be a great draw and he’s kind of like the ultimate dadpreneur. I’m sure we could all learn something from him. But I didn’t know Richard. I had no connection to Richard. And…
And I was like, all right, well, I’m going to have this idea. I’m going to go see if can make this happen. And so eventually like I put together this rough business plan. I hunted down some people that used to work for Richard, pitch them the idea. like, okay, go talk to these people, follow this path. Eventually got all the way to him and his team, pitched the idea. They said, yes, come to the Island. Sign here and sign here meant here’s a whole lot of money I got to pay, which I didn’t have.
Derek Notman (06:55.651)
but I said yes anyways. And then like, it’s interesting because there was another guy that was kind of loosely involved with this early on who completely flaked out and disappeared. I will say, and this is how Adam enters the story. not Adam and I have been best friends for a while. So Adam was the first dad that I asked and who said yes to come to Necker for this event. And he was also the guy I called as soon as things started to blow up on this, like I got, yes, I’ve made this financial commitment.
And this other guy backs out. like, Adam, what do do, man? What do I do? And he’s just like, in his calm kind of collective manner, older brother. He’s my older brother. He’s the voice of wisdom. He’s like, I got you, brother. I got you. And at that moment, like, was true partnership, and we went on. And so fast forward, we got our event onto Necker and had an amazing experience where dads were laughing and crying together.
H. Adam Holt (07:33.956)
Hehehe.
Derek Notman (07:54.531)
And right there they asked us like, so there’s more to this, right guys? We’re coming back. You’re going to do other stuff, right? And Adam like, my gosh, here we go. Like we thought this was a bucket list thing and now it’s turned into something else. I’ll pause there. That’s, that’s a good chunk of the backstory and what happened. I’m sure I missed some things, but it was real. mean, that whole process took what a year and a half Adam, like to get get one from starting. Like here’s this crazy idea to actually sit in with Richard on Necker Island.
H. Adam Holt (07:59.089)
You
H. Adam Holt (08:16.056)
Yeah, something like that. was a…
H. Adam Holt (08:22.722)
Yeah, yeah, like yeah. So you guys, you guys are pining about it. What thoughts or questions do have about that craziness?
Doug (08:31.052)
Well, one thing that there are a couple of things that some a word that you use that I like we talked obviously entrepreneur and people know what that is and you also said entrepreneur and and a lot of people you hear that what does that really mean? And but I find that to be an important word because you literally are saying can can I behave as an owner and the sacrifices owners make are different.
Ryan Goulart (08:31.146)
Well, I mean… Go for it, Doug.
H. Adam Holt (08:42.412)
Yeah.
Doug (09:00.396)
than the sacrifices that
others make. know, it’s kind of like, what’s that old story? Probably all of us heard it. You know, the sacrifice that a pig makes for bacon and egg breakfast is different than the sacrifice the chicken makes. You know, so, like, so that’s similar here. I mean, and if you can get people to understand the value of those who aren’t entrepreneurs, of being intrapreneurial is really powerful because it’s really
H. Adam Holt (09:15.524)
Yeah.
Derek Notman (09:16.579)
that’s good.
Doug (09:33.047)
the creation of something that is being created for somebody else and you experience that differently when you realize that’s what this is about. Entrepreneurs are creating things with the intent of improving people’s lives. That’s what entrepreneurs do. Entrepreneurs get it and they jump in on it. So I just wanted to say that.
just interrupt the flow a little bit, sorry, but that’s me. Ryan’s used to me doing that kind of stuff. But by the way, Adam, since I got the microphone here, you were awesome at the Evolve Conference, so you were a big hit and I’ve…
Derek Notman (10:03.875)
That’s good, great feedback.
Ryan Goulart (10:07.502)
Ha ha ha.
H. Adam Holt (10:07.844)
Yeah, and we love it because it’s usually good. mean, if you had talked nonsense, Doug, then I think people would be upset, but you always have a gem in there. You’re reliable that way. Thank you, Doug.
Ryan Goulart (10:10.286)
you
Derek Notman (10:12.854)
You
Ryan Goulart (10:13.426)
Hahaha
Ryan Goulart (10:20.706)
Well, it’s…
H. Adam Holt (10:24.535)
Doug (10:29.896)
I use your stuff a lot. Yes, absolutely. Know your client, know their situation, know their options and know them deeply. That’s how I read. I’m better that way. Anyway.
H. Adam Holt (10:33.018)
Well, thank you for that.
H. Adam Holt (10:40.624)
Wow, you memorized it. That’s good stuff.
you
Ryan Goulart (10:47.746)
So Derek, was like you went, so you were feeling lonely. This is the, and then you were feeling like you were on an island, and then you legitimately go to an island.
H. Adam Holt (10:52.334)
Yeah.
Ryan Goulart (10:57.77)
So it’s fascinating to kind of see how this all starts to connect for you based on your story and then how you want to contribute to other dad’s success and being better dads. So when it comes to the REBL Dad community, tell me a little bit more about what’s the entry point for dads? Where are they starting off with as they come into this community, wanting to do what you’re sharing of being a responsible entrepreneur and also balancing
the life of a dad.
Derek Notman (11:32.205)
Well, Adam and I made it very clear early on that this was not a community of, here’s how you should do things. And if you don’t do them this way, you’re a loser. You know, like kind of thing. Like we don’t need that type of community. This was a community where you could open up and share and be vulnerable and hear the stories of successes, failures and whatnot from others. And then pick and choose like, you know, so-and-so dealt with this situation this way. This resonates with me. I’m going to try that.
So really more of like a collective wisdom, if you will, ultimately to help us be better leaders at home and work. And so, you know, we do have our entry point with the event every year, which we have another one coming up this January. If you’re interested, let us know. And that’s like our kind of our pinnacle event for the year. But Adam and I have been really hard working on a couple of the ways to give dads other entry points depending on where they are in life.
including an app that we’re launching and something really, really special that Adam and I decided to add to our list of things to do was that we ended up, we get into this, but we ended up writing a book. And we happy to share more about that, but we really wanted to try to get the wisdom and the ideas and the experience that we have on Necker to as many dads as possible. And so we don’t judge. You can come in at any stage of life. Like the only real rule.
I think Adam that we have is you to be a dad. Like that’s about it, right? know, and, and a contributor, like, like give into this community to get.
H. Adam Holt (13:00.462)
That’s it. Well, you got to be a contributor too. You can’t just go up and take.
Yeah, it’s not a networking event where you’re trying to get business cards to, right? I think one of the things that to Derek’s point and any, think this is really important because you’re right. I think that there’s a loneliness epidemic out there, especially for men trying to figure out what their role is today. Masculinity is in question, kind of old paradigms are being destroyed, but there’s not necessarily given one to kind of replace it. it’s like, let’s have massive societal change. I think entrepreneurs generally tend to be first
Derek Notman (13:11.318)
Yeah, we-
H. Adam Holt (13:37.187)
movers, right? They’re gonna try something first. it was easy for us to, easier for us to put ourselves around by like-minded people who are go-doers so that we could not have judgment between us. Some of these people are actually quite successful, some are just starting out, but they all have an attitude of, want to lead this and we don’t know what we’re getting into so we’re going to figure it out. And I think the real, key to a lot of this is we did a bunch of research, gentlemen, on
what was happening with respect to fatherhood and the lack of male leadership specifically in the homes. And we found statistics that were quite surprising, something to the tune of 18 million homes with kids right now don’t have a father role, don’t have a male in the family. Lots of different reasons for that. What was interesting about that is that if there was no male, they had a significantly higher rate. We’re talking multitudes, five, six, 10, 30 X more likely to be depressed, teenage pregnancy,
in prison, basically, suicide. These are very high numbers. Now, it’s not a causality question, but it begs the question that if you have this combined lack of role and purpose in men, and also an absentee parent, that maybe it’s because, maybe it’s because no one’s teaching anybody how to be a mentor, to be a role model. And maybe we can interview a bunch of other fathers going through this and find out what did they do differently just to get one nugget that I could apply in my life.
regardless of kind of economic background or even language. So that was really the hope to try to do one little thing that was gonna affect this challenge.
Ryan Goulart (15:16.534)
Yeah. I see you thinking over there, Doug. I’ll give it to you.
Doug (15:18.348)
Well, I’m thinking that, you what I’m thinking is what you’ve described, Adam and Derek, is really the, what I think of as the and world that is what I seek. It’s I want to be a really good dad and…
I want to be a successful entrepreneur. The entrepreneur part of it is that’s the part where I’m bringing to the rest of the world something that benefits the rest of the world. But I don’t want to do things for the rest of the world at the expense of being a good dad. It’s an and game, it’s not an or game. When I started out,
I’m a white guy and a lot of white guys sacrificed everything and they were absent. Not because in some cases they wanted to be, they thought that was the price you pay. It does not have to be. So this can be for all of us an and world. We can, you know, I haven’t been great at everything all the time but it’s possible. And so I look at my
myself as a fallible human being. Thanks Larry Wilson for teaching me that concept. And yet I want to be a great father, not so-so, not half-assed. And I want to be great at my career. I want to be a great husband.
I don’t want to be so-so. Now I have grandchildren. I want to be a great grandfather, even great at being a grandfather and frankly being a great grandfather one day. So all of that is true.
Derek Notman (16:59.117)
Mm-hmm.
H. Adam Holt (17:10.352)
Thanks.
Doug (17:13.812)
So I really like what you’re talking about and I really appreciate that the book you’re writing is about and this is not about give up this for that. Give up stuff that doesn’t matter for stuff that matters. That’s what this is about. Anyway, thank you for being here. I really appreciate it.
H. Adam Holt (17:34.159)
That’s a, it’s a, okay, Doug, not surprising for you. It’s a, it’s a great insight. And I would tell you that there was something that, was important for Derek and I when we went on this venture, because neither one of us wanted to create something, especially as a legacy project like this. We know a book lives forever, as you know, well, you’ve got books that are still in circulation today and it represents you. It’s got your name on it, Doug. And, and that’s important to us to protect that for not only ourselves, but we realize how important it is potentially for next generation. Cause that, that our reputation will travel with our kids.
right? And I think we wanted to create something that was going to be both accessible to Ryan’s point, not maybe just only exclusive, but also not not we’ll call it pulpit oriented, like you need to do this and the recognition, you’re right that that we’re not going to do it perfectly. And that should never be the the requirement for entry is perfection first. And then we’ll give you some gems. The key is recognition. We’re we’re we’re all in some level and I could do just something to
Doug (18:29.336)
Yeah.
H. Adam Holt (18:34.122)
differently and try it and the potential kind of arc of that distinction over long periods of time could actually create a magnified effect. So anyway that’s our hope, that’s a theory right? What actually happens is up to everybody.
Doug (18:49.856)
Yeah, no, I think it’s fantastic. And you know, the thing about legacy, people ask about leaving a legacy. I said, leaving a legacy, I think, is as easy as dying, and then people talk about you. So the opportunity is less about leaving what they say than living what you would like them to say.
Derek Notman (19:19.523)
Hmm.
Doug (19:19.98)
And so if you live like if you want people to say he was a great dad, you know, maybe.
Be a great dad. That’s why I say I am what I do and so are you. And I have not always been the best of dad or the best husband. I am a fallible human being. And one of the principles in play here is forgiveness. We gotta be able to let go of our own mistakes, move on, and let go of the mistakes of other people and move on.
We’re humans, we’re fallible human beings and we’re gonna behave very human at times. I always find it interesting, you had mentioned your dogs, Derek, and people are always shocked. Sometimes they behave like dogs. And sometimes people behave like people. Like, that’s all human of you.
H. Adam Holt (20:21.04)
It’s like Yogi Berra coming out of YouTube.
Doug (20:23.818)
You’re welcome.
Ryan Goulart (20:26.074)
Hahaha
Doug (20:28.748)
But this is such a great topic. How did you choose Necker Island? I’ve been wanting to ask that. What was the deal?
Derek Notman (20:36.375)
Well, this goes back to Richard Branson, right? Like we needed a draw and Richard’s a great draw. He’s been very successful as an entrepreneur and as a father, a husband, and Necker Island is his home. And so they allow private events to come there. So it all just worked out magically. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started. my God, this seems like a cool idea. Let’s go.
Doug (21:04.011)
Yeah.
Derek Notman (21:04.033)
I think I give Adam a heart attack every other day with my quick start mentality, but…
H. Adam Holt (21:10.618)
Don’t let him talk too much, he might start another business.
Derek Notman (21:13.055)
Yeah, right, right.
Doug (21:13.108)
No, I like that. That’s awesome. That really is, know, because one of the things we teach in for people that are trying to figure out how to.
Ryan Goulart (21:13.134)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Doug (21:25.108)
get clients as we teach a concept called client targeting, which is name the person you want and then get introduced to them. And you did it. So whoever watches the show, Ryan, let’s make sure we get everybody to watch. This is it. He picked who he wanted to do it with. And then he found somebody who knew them and then got connected. And that’s what client targeting is all about. That’s how, you know, I’ve become, you know, I’m Adam’s whole biggest fan. mean, I’m talking
Derek Notman (21:33.121)
Yes. Yes.
Doug (21:55.095)
asset map a lot because of what I learned from him and it really is the human dimension and the game being played today and people who are fathers at least the ones that we’re talking to want to be good at it and what we’re trying to say is you can go ahead and be good at that and be an entrepreneur. like, I love it. That REBL thing that I like the, it stands for, what does it exactly mean?
Derek Notman (22:24.299)
responsible entrepreneur balanced leader.
H. Adam Holt (22:31.28)
you
There’s an important aspect to this. Obviously, REBL was important connotation in the REBL dad, right? Do something different and do it proactively. we had to think a lot about this, especially from a branding standpoint, as it grew beyond our core group of intimate buddies that now talk every week. We actually have a WhatsApp group between the 30, 40 of us, and everybody can post and create accountability and all kinds of, we do this kind of micro coaching.
between each other.
you know, shares you can imagine, but the real kind of the more you’re forced to talk about your brand and what you really represent, it allowed us to codify it more. And so the way that we tend to think about it now, and it’s on our website, REBL dads.com is the R is responsibility and that’s you need to own it. Whatever it is you’re doing, you got to own it, right? The entrepreneurial set section is you got to build it because no one’s going to build it right for you. Balance is that you have to protect it. Balance is an interesting one because people
Doug (23:24.127)
Yeah.
H. Adam Holt (23:34.719)
and like there’s no balance, there’s only integrated work life and business life, but balance is a recognition of when there is imbalance, not that you’re trying to achieve balance. And we all spend 60 hours at work and two to three hours of present time at home, and we’re there, but.
We’re spending 60 hours on work, like you said, and two hours on the development of our kids and whatever. That’s a huge mismatch and we don’t recognize it because we’re used to it, right? So balance is protect what you’ve built. And then lastly, leadership is about modeling it. So the key, and you talk about this a lot, Doug, in your programs and books, is the kind of, know, follow the do what I say, don’t, I’m sorry, do what I do, don’t do what I say. Or maybe do both.
Doug (23:52.054)
Yeah.
Doug (24:20.0)
Yeah. Yeah, Ideally, yeah, I mean, that’s it. mean, I think you’re and you have such a great way of saying things that kind of get through. I believe this is gives, you know, Napoleon said one of the roles of a leader.
H. Adam Holt (24:21.842)
How about do that? Do both.
Doug (24:40.658)
is to give people real reasons for hope and optimism. And for those of you who are dads or who are related to somebody who is one, this whole thing gives people real reasons to be hopeful and optimistic. You mean I could be a good dad and something else? Yeah. How cool is that? That’s cool. So I appreciate you guys doing this.
Derek Notman (25:03.555)
No question about it. Yep.
Doug (25:10.542)
How’d you think of putting us all together? What was the motivation here? Now, you’re a two-time dad now that you’ve got two kids.
Ryan Goulart (25:15.799)
Well…
I do. I have a seven month old at home. he, yeah, it is. And then I have a five year old and it is, I’ll tell you both, Doug of course knows this, but going through babyhood again, you forget. And I am in it, gentlemen. The amount of caffeine I’ve already consumed is extensive and I’m here. But one of the things I want to come back to that balance.
Derek Notman (25:21.005)
That’s great.
Doug (25:36.404)
Hahaha!
Derek Notman (25:36.553)
Ryan Goulart (25:47.983)
comment there, Adam, because as I even just evaluate my own dadhood and my own being a dad now for the second time and navigating that.
Balance does come into question. is that, like how, mean, Gray is seven months old. He goes to a daycare. I don’t, we bring him home when I can pick him up. He’s up for an hour and then he goes to bed and then I see him every 90 minutes, but that’s neither here nor there. But the part that I’m curious about, because I would say that it definitely applies, I would imagine for that collective that you’ve all both have developed with other dads is like,
Is that a common theme? Is that something that you all anchor on of how to navigate both the imbalance of noticing when you’re out of it and coming back? Because that’s definitely something here that I think to reform, particularly on this podcast, that the idea of alignment and out of alignment is consistently something we talk about. I’m just curious to see it just from what you both have discovered with your group and with your community. How does balance play a role?
Derek Notman (26:58.991)
Adam, you mind if I take that first? All right.
H. Adam Holt (27:00.936)
I’m waiting for you to. I’m trying to be balanced and…
Doug (27:02.277)
Hahaha!
Derek Notman (27:05.258)
Well, one thing that really came out of the hundred plus conversations we had for the book and of all the conversations we’ve had on Necker now multiple times, balance is not possible.
And I think first being okay with that. Now, the pursuit of balance is important. I think that’s something else that we also talked about that it’s okay to realize we’ll never be fully balanced, but we can pursue it to try to get better at both roles, all the roles that we’re playing. You know, number of dads for the book interviews use the term called harmony. That it’s actually better to try to find harmony with the different roles that you have.
versus balance and that really resonated with me. We’re using all these different musical terms now. it made a lot of sense when you think about it that way. Now with that said, if we’re trying to be in harmony or trying to get closer to being balanced, some of the things that we’ve learned about is like blocking certain things like, you know,
Doug (27:55.212)
I like that harmony.
Ryan Goulart (27:55.224)
You
Derek Notman (28:14.435)
I’m going to make sure that I have this amount of time with my kid every day or every weekend. Like this is scheduled. Uh, we were just on another podcast with another REBL dad who, uh, what, does he call it? I I forget what he calls it. This is Brad, like Brad, like his time with his kids trumps everything else. Right. Even like special business meetings. so scheduling those things, but also knowing that that’s not always going to work out the way you want it. And so like one of the things I’ve found Ryan is just.
sharing with my son, like, here’s my schedule, here’s why maybe I can’t pick you up from school today, here’s why maybe I can’t be at dinner, because I’ve got this thing going on, and including them in the stuff that I’m doing and experiencing versus just totally isolating. And so I think including them and knowing that it’s not possible to achieve perfect balance is okay, but trying to get a little bit better every day.
H. Adam Holt (28:55.408)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
and why.
Derek Notman (29:10.211)
is okay too, right? I don’t know, mean, anything you can add there would be great, but those are some of the things we’ve learned thus far.
H. Adam Holt (29:11.824)
Well, you’re inspiring me because there are so many nuggets here. How do we package them in a couple minute explanation where our audience here can take it, think about it, and maybe do something differently? I’ll try to relate, Brian, to something that our financial advisor community knows really well. What does a balanced asset allocation look like?
Derek Notman (29:23.223)
Yeah, right.
H. Adam Holt (29:38.317)
And the reality is, you all know the answer, a portfolio is gonna have lots of different things in it that make sense based upon some goal or intention, right? Hopefully we can all relate to that. An allocation of stocks, bond, cash, or whatever you’re gonna add to it is gonna be allocation. You choose that allocation intentionally. And what happens day two? It’s already out of whack.
And the question is, is do you have to constantly rebalance that asset allocation in order to align with the reason I did it in the first place? And the answer is no, I got to let my winners run a little bit. you know what saying? Hopefully everybody relates to this. The same thing is true with our time and our commitments. The challenge is we don’t actually approach them intentionally. And that’s really what intentional presence means. It’s that I’m spending 60 hours a week on my work.
and I’m all in because it allows me the lifestyle that I’m going to afford to the other people. The challenge is when we don’t realize that we’re just letting that winner run and run over all the other allocations of our capital, which is really our time and commitment, right? So in a sense, being aware.
that you’re out of kind of balance is something you have to take stock and how do you do it? You do a quarterly review, right? And you go back to, wait, wait, am I still an aggressive portfolio or am I really, I’m way out of alignment? And that’s the kind of, I think, accountability question. As Derek said, if you can tell the family why you’re committing to this and what you expect it to be in it for all of us, you get a much different experience. Now, to take it back to your prior question, as a father of a
seven-month-old. It’s true because you’re not mom and you’re not likely dependent for feeding. You have a different role in the early years. You could argue your kid won’t remember if you were present in the first five years, but guess who’s gonna remember? Your partner’s gonna remember. And if you want your partner to walk into year six, seven, eight believing that this is a joint project, you better be there to support them now.
H. Adam Holt (31:43.001)
And so that’s the real kind of irony behind a lot of the dads not knowing, like, I’m useless. I’m just going to go to work and make money so we can pay for the babysitter and this and that and then taking two vacations a year. And the partner who’s taking care of the family is feeling completely abandoned. And that plays out in later years in lots of different ways, as you can imagine. So I think really that what our role is, nobody kind of tells us that.
But sometimes being a leader is being a servant leader. And during those early five years, it’s trying to be the best servant leader to the person whose point, right? If you follow that as a CEO, you’d understand that, right?
Ryan Goulart (32:19.33)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Doug, jump in. You’re here. You’re here. Go for it.
Doug (32:22.316)
That was quite brilliant, Adam. You know, my goodness sakes, you are undirected. You’re very good. It’s brilliant. It was awesome. That to me is it. mean, we said it already. We are what we do. And one of the things you said, Derek, and I’ll pile on.
H. Adam Holt (32:30.192)
I just make this stuff up. I don’t know where it comes from.
Doug (32:46.988)
I, we call them key activities and there’s that rock, sand, water metaphor thing, but when it came to my fathering activities…
They were key activities. They were on my calendar and like your friend said, I mean, and I would do what you would do if I had to violate something. I would try to explain here’s what is gonna happen and here’s why. But I had access to crazy things. I mean, I would, because of the position I had in…
my company at different times. I could fly the corporate jet. I could leave a big meeting and get to a family event. But being there for me was important, not just to any of them, but for me.
because I knew what I was doing and what I wasn’t. And so that to me is very important. And it’s really back to the and word. I really see it. And one of the things that I believe people are wanting to do,
mothers and fathers, is there wanting to pass good values on? To me, it’s less about transference of wealth and it’s more about transference of the values you want your children and ultimately grandchildren and beyond to have. And if you transfer the values, then the wealth will transfer in a productive way. And I think that kind of gets confused.
Doug (34:29.132)
That’s my thought on it. But really, this has been fun. Can we keep going, Ryan? How long do we get to do this?
Ryan Goulart (34:36.546)
We can do it for a couple more minutes, I do. I know, I know, I know. When you think about, so there’s that idea of balance. What other insights have come out? I mean, I know in your book, there’s seven principle themes that I’m imagining have helped kind of position.
H. Adam Holt (34:39.024)
Walk faster, guys.
Ryan Goulart (34:55.438)
commonalities with the other dads in the community. So what are some other standouts that as we kind of think about wrapping up that you would help the dads that are listening and even the mothers that are listening to help their partner in this life kind of contribute to? What are some comments that are coming up there?
H. Adam Holt (35:15.758)
I think the one, Derek, I would throw out there is I think shared experiences comes up a lot. Okay, well, then I’ll leave it for you, but I think if there’s anything that high performing dads did right that they shared with us that they did right, was there memories they built with their kids after age five?
Derek Notman (35:21.384)
It’s thinking the same thing.
H. Adam Holt (35:36.697)
with intentional time they spent with one single child. So dad and one of their children having an experience, whether it was 15 minutes or whether it was 15 days, excursion style, something that you will have shared memories inside jokes about that are only yours, specific neurological connections that are memories that will live for their lifetime. they’ll be told. So if you’re not intentional about creating those moments, they just, you miss it.
Derek Notman (36:05.411)
They don’t happen. Yeah.
H. Adam Holt (36:06.362)
to miss it.
Doug (36:06.494)
And by the way, those should be if you have more than one child with each child, not with the children. I realized is I don’t want to relate to the kids. I want to relate to each person. They’re individual and I have a special relationship with each of them.
H. Adam Holt (36:11.46)
That’s right. Yeah.
Derek Notman (36:12.227)
Correct, separated, yep.
H. Adam Holt (36:19.578)
That’s right.
Derek Notman (36:25.315)
Yeah, that’s a good point, Doug. You know, deeper on that shared experience, I remember one dad talking about one of the things that he really liked doing with his kids is they would travel somewhere new where the language, the culture, everything was so different, where it would challenge the kids to experience something new. And it may not always be easy, but then to share that experience together. You know, it’s easy to go to the same restaurant down the street, you know, once a week or whatever, but
H. Adam Holt (36:27.321)
script.
Derek Notman (36:54.019)
to really kind of get out of the daily norm and go do something new. Not only will it be more memorable as Adam said, but there will be challenges that come along the way where they’re forced to think and grow. And I mean, that’s what it’s all about, right? Think to perform. Well, that’s it. Full circle, baby.
Doug (37:10.322)
I was what a great idea.
H. Adam Holt (37:10.66)
Right. Amazing. Whish! Full circle. That’s amazing.
Ryan Goulart (37:11.534)
Yeah, there we go
Doug (37:16.908)
To name a company like that, I like it.
H. Adam Holt (37:21.732)
Yeah, you should name your company that, Very cool.
Ryan Goulart (37:24.187)
Yeah, Adam, any other comments there as we kind of think about wrapping this up?
H. Adam Holt (37:32.393)
No, I think one of the things I think even for myself I realized and I learned that from this book in this process. So I want you to understand kind of how we project.
I realize even for myself, I wasn’t intentionally present. I was blind present, which means basically I was like, I had to be, I convinced myself I needed to be there, but that doesn’t mean I was mentally, emotionally there, right? So I figured that’s what was the deterministic component of being a cadet. I just gotta be there no matter what, all the time, just available and accessible, right? At the expense of a lot of things. And it didn’t create those shared experiences. I had them differently. And so I think for, even for myself and Derek as well, we’re learning and trying to implement many.
of these things ourselves. hope that people and our friends, like you said, Doug, recognizing their humility and fallibility that we don’t have to get it perfect. Derek reiterates it many times in the book. And we hope that people approach it from the standpoint of I’m just going to do one little thing. Just I’m going to try this.
Doug (38:28.384)
Well, the beauty of that is we can grasp the interesting thing that’s kind of a fun thing about being a human is there actually is no end to getting better at it. You know, so I can always improve being me. And it’s kind of exciting when I think about it like that, and I do think about it like that. It makes it more fun to get older.
Derek Notman (38:42.423)
Yeah.
H. Adam Holt (38:42.992)
It’s
Derek Notman (38:57.633)
You know, Doug, I’m really glad you said that because Adam and I had this conversation the other day. think Adam and both struggled with this, but have gotten better through this book process is that it’s really easy for us, especially in the advisor space where it’s a very competitive space to compare yourself to everybody else. I’m going to compare my production to the next advisor or my financial status or the size of my house or anything to everyone else, my health. And at the end of the day, you shouldn’t do that.
H. Adam Holt (38:58.426)
Yeah.
Doug (39:14.336)
Yeah.
Derek Notman (39:27.483)
I would venture to say that you’re better just comparing yourself to yourself. And did I get a little bit better than yesterday? Did I have that self-improvement? That really comes through in the book a lot. It’s like, can I just get a little bit better for me? So I’m better for me, I’m better for my spouse, my kids, my business, and so forth. It’s not easy, but that makes it easier versus comparing yourself to so-and-so down the street.
Doug (39:46.451)
Yeah
Doug (39:52.417)
Well, thank you guys for writing the book. know, you know, when Ryan and I wrote a book together, was kind of fun to do. I’m sure you had fun doing it and we did.
Ryan Goulart (39:53.942)
Yeah, thank you.
H. Adam Holt (40:02.074)
Yeah, we’re still friends, which is strange. You guys have no choice, but yeah.
Derek Notman (40:03.937)
Yeah, we made it. We made it through.
Doug (40:04.114)
Yeah.
Ryan Goulart (40:10.741)
Yes.
Derek Notman (40:11.095)
Yeah, right, right.
Doug (40:11.357)
Hahaha
He’s not an indentured servant, nor am I. We can either both move on, you know.
H. Adam Holt (40:19.214)
Now he controls your legacy, Doug. What are you talking about? is the steward of any kind of legacy you’re going to have now. That’s a hugely important role. You like that? I’m giving you the power back, Ryan. just don’t want Doug to feel too strong here.
Doug (40:21.799)
Yeah.
All through.
Ryan Goulart (40:26.862)
Well positioned, Adam. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, exactly.
Doug (40:31.072)
you
Derek Notman (40:31.34)
WAAAHH!
Ryan Goulart (40:36.718)
Thank you both so much for coming on. This has been fantastic. I’ve learned a lot and I’m excited to get my hands on your book. And it comes out, the physical copy comes out early June, right? So for those that are excited to learn more about this and learn more about some of the actions that Adam and Derek have collected over time, go get a copy. Thank you again.
H. Adam Holt (40:40.505)
Absolutely.
Derek Notman (40:51.319)
Yes.
Derek Notman (41:03.299)
Thank you both guys, really appreciate it.
H. Adam Holt (41:04.689)
Good to see you all, thank you.
Ryan Goulart (41:05.741)
Thank you.
